Blood Magic: The Comprehensive Suggestion Thread, Part One

[Ensign]

I don't really see anything happening with Blood to make it viable on its own; the mechanical depth isn't there and I don't really like the migration options. I'd like to see some spot buffs to make Curses/Blood or Death/Blood more attractive, ala Dom/Insp or Illusion/Insp.

[Stormlord Alex]

Originally Posted by horseradish

lolwut?

Sorry, was reading the duration Slap me!

[Carinae]

I could refine the Vampiric Assassain concept somewhat, eliminate the more radical changes, use less of the spells (leaving them for Option B, whatever that is), that is if there is any interest. I think it could be viable with some tweaking.

[Drakken Breathes Fire]

Thanks to all the talk about the 'Blood Magic' Vampire, And the lack of direction for the retouched blood magic to be taking, I've come up with this, concept;

The new blood magic necromancer, either excells in both party support as a healer, energy or health battery, or gets his hands dirty with the mid and front liners with these skill changes, becoming more resilient, to direct confrontation;

[Demonic Flesh]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 20%][Energy Cost 1][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 60]
[Enchantment]
[For 30...54...60 seconds, your maximum Health is increased by 80...176...200.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 30%][Energy Cost 1][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 45]
[Enchantment]
[For 21...35..45 seconds you gain 40..88..176 health and 40 armor. Whenever you take holy damage, it is doubled.]

Reasoning; A lot of necromancer skills require him to be in striking distance to be used to their full effect, with this change, a necromancer can either become more resiliant to foes breaking through to the back lines, or join the front lines in combat as a competent contender. I've chosen values scaling so that only a necromancer primary can upkeep this spell at higher than 12 Blood Magic. (Without use of Arcane Echo or Enchantment weapons, of course. Values need to be retouched accordingly.) You become like the undead.

[Vampiric Touch][Vampiric Bite]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 0%][Energy Cost 15][Casting Time 3/4][Recharge Time 2]
[Skill]
[Touch target foe to steal up to 29...65...74 Health.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 10%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 3/4][Recharge Time 2]
[Skill]
[Touch target foe to steal up to 15..35..74 Health.]

Reasoning? The end to Touch Rangers. This skill now packs a 10% sacrifice and the life steal scales so only a Necromancer Primary can benefit from the maximum effectiveness at higher levels of Blood Magic. When used with Awaken the Blood, he's sacrificing, 15%+50%. (Roughly taking 72-116 damage every time he uses it himself. Causing him to pay a hefty price for the use of this skill.) At higher levels of blood magic, and higher amounts of health (600+ and demonic flesh) This skill does more harm to the caster than good preventing abuse. Touch Rangers take higher damage than they deal using this skill, preventing abuse. Counters in pvp; Typical toucher counters, *scourge sacrifice.*

[Blood Bond]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 0%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 2]
[Enchantment]
[For 5...17...20 seconds, target other ally gains +1...5...6 Health regeneration and you suffer -3 Health degeneration.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 0%][Energy Cost 10 <1][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 2]
[Enchantment]
[While you maintain this enchantment, target other ally gains +1...5...6 Health regeneration and you suffer -2 Health degeneration.]

Reasoning? This skill is a lot more useful now. As an upkeep enchantment, this can support a whole party with energy regeneration. (Though at a HEAVY cost to it's caster.) He loses 1 pip of energy regeneration (stacking per ukpeep) and 2 pips of energy regeneration. (stacking per upkeep.)
While we can't limit how many people he casts this on in game, he must be very careful how many allies he uses this enchantment on, due to the degeneration stacking beyond the maximum of 10 pips. A point comes where he cannot offset his own health degeneration.

[Blood Ritual]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 17%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 2][Recharge Time 2]
[Enchantment]
[For 8...13...14 seconds, target touched ally gains +3 Energy regeneration. Blood Ritual cannot be used on the caster.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 17%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 2][Recharge Time 2]
[Enchantment]
[For 8...13...14 seconds, target ally gains +3 Energy regeneration. Blood Ritual cannot be used on the caster.]

Reason for change? Let's face it, People move, having this as a touch skill blows. Much more utility given this new freedom of mobility.

[Vampiric Spirit]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 0%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 5]
[Enchantment]
[For 5...17...20 seconds, your spells cost 3 more Energy, but whenever you cast a spell you steal up to 5...41...50 Health from one nearby foe.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 25%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 5]
[Enchantment]
[For 5...17...20 seconds, whenever a member in your party casts a spell that targets a foe they steal 5...41...50 Health one nearby foe and you lose 5% health.]

This is caster verson of Order of Undeath. When running a magic heavy team, this skill can hurt both your enemies, and you if you aren't well equipped to counter the life lost. Like OoU this doesn't count as a sacrifice. It has increased life lost, respectively from OoU, because the life steal is greater than the damage bonus from order of OoU.

Touch of Agony and Wallows bite I propose no changes.

Unholy Feast I propose no changes.

Vampiric Gaze//Angorodons Gaze//Shadow Strike//Lifebane Strike, I propose no changes.

For other skills, see previous posts.

[System_Crush]

I think I'll dump something here we have been discussing in the Concept Class forums.

Its about 'blood minions', that instead of natural degen cause their owner to lose X% of the health they lose when taking damage.
While those minions aren't something that I think will end up in GW1, but the resulting function it gains the necro is interesting.

[Blood Bond]

[Current Form]
[Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 2]
[Enchantment]
[For 5...17...21 seconds, target other ally gains +1...5...6 Health regeneration and you suffer -3 Health regeneration.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 17%][Energy Cost 10][Casting Time 2][Recharge Time 10]
[Enchantment]
[For 10 seconds, target whenever target other ally takes damage, that ally steals health equal to 5...80...105% of that damage from you.]

It will protect the ally from direct damage that gets through their armor/prot spirit, but not from damage due to degen and conditions.
Of course it is not at all without risk to the necro, its a quite costly skill.
This will offer a great way to protect your allies, especially a monk in RA and enhances what I think is a tradition started with [[Foul Feast],s current effect.

[Well of Suffering]

[Current Form]
[Energy Cost 10][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 10]
[Well Spell]
[Exploit nearest corpse to create a Well of Suffering at its location. For 10...26...31 seconds, foes in that area suffer -1...5...6 Health degeneration.][Death Magic]

[Suggestion]
[Energy Cost 15][Casting Time 1.5][Recharge Time 20]
[Well Spell]
[Exploit nearest corpse to create a Well of Suffering at its location. For 6...12...15 seconds, whenever an ally in the well takes damage, the source of that damage loses health equal to 15% of the damage(max. 3....27...35 health)][Blood Magic]

This is a general counter against AoE spikes, because they would be a big problem to minions that return some of their damage; it would make a nice detergent for the gimmic builds with AoEDoTs.

I tried to keep them balanced, but basically instead of heals and spikes a blood binder would be about prots and vengeance damage.

[Drakken Breathes Fire]

Well of suffering seems a bit overpowered. Maybe the same damage scale as barbs ect? think about it, you nuke 3-4 minions with that for damage dealt back to you, you're looking at half your health or more insta-gone.

[System_Crush]

Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire

Well of suffering seems a bit overpowered. Maybe the same damage scale as barbs ect? think about it, you nuke 3-4 minions with that for damage dealt back to you, you're looking at half your health or more insta-gone.

Really? I guess with [[Holy Spear] perhaps as the holy damages minions twice as much, though most AoE nukes won't hit the 46 health per returned hit cap, single packets rarely exceed 120.
As 15% of 120 is only 18 damage it is more the speed at which packets are received that makes this skill powerful.

I nerfed the max damage returned a bit, just to be sure.

[[Savannah Heat] should still return a hefty toll though, the purpose of the skill is discourage the use of AoEDOTs on foes inside the well
(or any well; as you can't really tell them apart if you didn't see the casting animation)

[Drakken Breathes Fire]

Gracias.
I wasn't thinking so much on the overall single hit damage, but of the mass multidude of minions under each AoE and the damage stacking.
Is it just me or does this idea stink of mesmer, though?

[zling]

Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire

Thanks to all the talk about the 'Blood Magic' Vampire, And the lack of direction for the retouched blood magic to be taking, I've come up with this, concept;

The new blood magic necromancer, either excells in both party support as a healer, energy or health battery, or gets his hands dirty with the mid and front liners with these skill changes, becoming more resilient, to direct confrontation;

[Demonic Flesh]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 20%][Energy Cost 1][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 60]
[Enchantment]
[For 30...54...60 seconds, your maximum Health is increased by 80...176...200.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 30%][Energy Cost 1][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 45]
[Enchantment]
[For 21...35..45 seconds you gain 40..88..176 health and 40 armor. Whenever you take holy damage, it is doubled.]

Reasoning; A lot of necromancer skills require him to be in striking distance to be used to their full effect, with this change, a necromancer can either become more resiliant to foes breaking through to the back lines, or join the front lines in combat as a competent contender. I've chosen values scaling so that only a necromancer primary can upkeep this spell at higher than 12 Blood Magic. (Without use of Arcane Echo or Enchantment weapons, of course. Values need to be retouched accordingly.) You become like the undead.

enchantment removal=gg
still not useful in PvP... also what does "you gain x health means" it increases max health or heals you?

[Vampiric Touch][Vampiric Bite]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 0%][Energy Cost 15][Casting Time 3/4][Recharge Time 2]
[Skill]
[Touch target foe to steal up to 29...65...74 Health.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 10%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 3/4][Recharge Time 2]
[Skill]
[Touch target foe to steal up to 15..35..74 Health.]

Reasoning? The end to Touch Rangers. This skill now packs a 10% sacrifice and the life steal scales so only a Necromancer Primary can benefit from the maximum effectiveness at higher levels of Blood Magic. When used with Awaken the Blood, he's sacrificing, 15%+50%. (Roughly taking 72-116 damage every time he uses it himself. Causing him to pay a hefty price for the use of this skill.) At higher levels of blood magic, and higher amounts of health (600+ and demonic flesh) This skill does more harm to the caster than good preventing abuse. Touch Rangers take higher damage than they deal using this skill, preventing abuse. Counters in pvp; Typical toucher counters, *scourge sacrifice.*

yes it would really weaken touch rangers but having such high scaling is unreasonable... and touch rangers arent such a big problem Imho...

[Blood Bond]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 0%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 2]
[Enchantment]
[For 5...17...20 seconds, target other ally gains +1...5...6 Health regeneration and you suffer -3 Health degeneration.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 0%][Energy Cost 10 <1][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 2]
[Enchantment]
[While you maintain this enchantment, target other ally gains +1...5...6 Health regeneration and you suffer -2 Health degeneration.]

Reasoning? This skill is a lot more useful now. As an upkeep enchantment, this can support a whole party with energy regeneration. (Though at a HEAVY cost to it's caster.) He loses 1 pip of energy regeneration (stacking per ukpeep) and 2 pips of energy regeneration. (stacking per upkeep.)
While we can't limit how many people he casts this on in game, he must be very careful how many allies he uses this enchantment on, due to the degeneration stacking beyond the maximum of 10 pips. A point comes where he cannot offset his own health degeneration.

still wont make it useful as Necros dont have ways to maintain enchantments like monks do, [skill]blessed signet[/skill] FTW! yes you say Soul Reaping but I say, what happens between battles?
also the massive self degen will kill you and you dont really have a good way to counter it...

[skill][Blood Ritual]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 17%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 2][Recharge Time 2]
[Enchantment]
[For 8...13...14 seconds, target touched ally gains +3 Energy regeneration. Blood Ritual cannot be used on the caster.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 17%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 2][Recharge Time 2]
[Enchantment]
[For 8...13...14 seconds, target ally gains +3 Energy regeneration. Blood Ritual cannot be used on the caster.]

Reason for change? Let's face it, People move, having this as a touch skill blows. Much more utility given this new freedom of mobility.[/skill]
if you make it like that how is it different from its elite counterpart [skill]blood is power[/skill] only 2-3 extra pips of regen?

[Vampiric Spirit]

[Current Form]
[Sacrifice 0%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 5]
[Enchantment]
[For 5...17...20 seconds, your spells cost 3 more Energy, but whenever you cast a spell you steal up to 5...41...50 Health from one nearby foe.]

[Suggestion]
[Sacrifice 25%][Energy Cost 5][Casting Time 1][Recharge Time 5]
[Enchantment]
[For 5...17...20 seconds, whenever a member in your party casts a spell that targets a foe they steal 5...41...50 Health one nearby foe and you lose 5% health.]

This is caster verson of Order of Undeath. When running a magic heavy team, this skill can hurt both your enemies, and you if you aren't well equipped to counter the life lost. Like OoU this doesn't count as a sacrifice. It has increased life lost, respectively from OoU, because the life steal is greater than the damage bonus from order of OoU.

interesting, not sure how it will work out. also if you 2 or more necros run this skill will the effect stack? if so than blood spike will be scarrier than ever!

Touch of Agony and Wallows bite I propose no changes.

Unholy Feast I propose no changes.

Vampiric Gaze//Angorodons Gaze//Shadow Strike//Lifebane Strike, I propose no changes.

For other skills, see previous posts.

Angorodon's certainly needs a nerf, the other skills here should also fit in the new blood magic changes you're suggesting. as right now it looks like your making a half arsed change to the blood line, if you start to work on the line work on the ENTIRE line...

[Drakken Breathes Fire]

Originally Posted by zling

enchantment removal=gg
still not useful in PvP... also what does "you gain x health means" it increases max health or heals you?

It increases max hp.

Originally Posted by zling

yes it would really weaken touch rangers but having such high scaling is unreasonable... and touch rangers arent such a big problem Imho...

People still whine about them.

Originally Posted by zling

still wont make it useful as Necros dont have ways to maintain enchantments like monks do, [skill]blessed signet[/skill] FTW! yes you say Soul Reaping but I say, what happens between battles?
also the massive self degen will kill you and you dont really have a good way to counter it...

Exactly why this cant be abused. I would think inbetween battles someone would have the brains to stop maintaining the enchantments and recover their hp.

Originally Posted by zling

if you make it like that how is it different from its elite counterpart [skill]blood is power[/skill] only 2-3 extra pips of regen?

There are a LOT of elites who aren't that much better than their counterpart.

Originally Posted by zling

interesting, not sure how it will work out. also if you 2 or more necros run this skill will the effect stack? if so than blood spike will be scarrier than ever!

One would replace the other. Much like the curses line in Diablo 2, whoever casts last gets theirs up. Otherwise, the life stealing would not stack, but both necros would lose 5% health each cast, and their party gains only one casts worth of benefit. Wasted spell.

Originally Posted by zling

Angorodon's certainly needs a nerf, the other skills here should also fit in the new blood magic changes you're suggesting. as right now it looks like your making a half arsed change to the blood line, if you start to work on the line work on the ENTIRE line...

Angorodons was already nerfed. There is nothing wrong with those skills I listed. If there's nothign broken, don't fix it. PS read the whole thread, everyone in here has been hacking away at the ENTIRE line.

[System_Crush]

Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire

Is it just me or does this idea stink of mesmer, though?

@ my posts? I have no idea why that would be.
Mesmers don't prot or deal vengeance damage... rits do.

Also about the new [[Vampiric Spirit] it needs a max duration of 5 seconds, like all other 'order' skills have, its pretty overpowered this way.

[Drakken Breathes Fire]

This is true.

Where is moloch? he needs to compile these all onto the front page!

[Turbobusa]

Just saw that skill:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bloodletting

TBH it really should have been implemented

[Magikarp]

im not going to lie, unless your version of R Gaze had a 15+ second recharge, that would get pretty imba in HA/GA, keeping warriors and paragons at next to 0 adren at all times. paired with arcane and its basically total shutdown of two classes, especially when you could cover them quickly with your versions of BotA. idk, otherwise (and while i didn't look at all of the revisions) i like a lot of your changes.

the only thing i could say after that would be that while blood and death (outside of pve for death) are the weak spots, look at what a crazy powerful primary and curses you get. SR is like free candy, WoD just makes me cry, and the curse line is just as stellar as always. i think every class needs one somewhat weak line, just so its not like.. overkill.. you know?

[Turbobusa]

Well eles have all attributes useful, with energy storage useful to a lesser extend since it is more of an exhaustion pool.

We suggested to put the recharge of ravenous gaze to 20+ seconds (I would even use it at 30) to keep it away from adrenaline-lock.
Dropping the adrenaline loss could make a 20 seconds recharge a possibility.

[Creep-Cyrax]

Well im a new here so im going to just write this build down,since i dont know how to post skills yet
This build anyone can think of in a matter of seconds if they are using blood magic
Lets go,then:
1:Unholy Feast
2:Vampiric Touch
3:Vampiric Swarm
4:Vampiric Gaze
5:Blood Renewal
6:Strip Enchantment
7:Offering of Blood(Elite)
8:Rez signet or a hard rez
This build is for me a true vampire

[Calista Blackblood]

Originally Posted by Creep-Cyrax

Well im a new here so im going to just write this build down,since i dont know how to post skills yet
This build anyone can think of in a matter of seconds if they are using blood magic
Lets go,then:
1:Unholy Feast
2:Vampiric Touch
3:Vampiric Swarm
4:Vampiric Gaze
5:Blood Renewal
6:Strip Enchantment
7:Offering of Blood(Elite)
8:Rez signet or a hard rez
This build is for me a true vampire

welcome i guess although this thread is a comprehensive suggestion thread for a blood magic rework and not builds

[Creep-Cyrax]

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

welcome i guess although this thread is a comprehensive suggestion thread for a blood magic rework and not builds

I actualy wanted to say that we dont realy need rework for Blood magic.Sure there are some useless skills,like Dark Pact(Realy who would sacrifice 10% of his health just to do 50-60 shadow dam?) but there are lifestealing skills which are preety cool to me

[Drakken Breathes Fire]

Originally Posted by Creep-Cyrax

I actualy wanted to say that we dont realy need rework for Blood magic.Sure there are some useless skills,like Dark Pact(Realy who would sacrifice 10% of his health just to do 50-60 shadow dam?) but there are lifestealing skills which are preety cool to me

Blood, arguably is fine, if you know how to use it.
If you're going to nub it up with over 600 hp on a saccing build, yeah you're gonna die. Saccing 60 health to deal 60 dmg is gaytarded. Saccing 60 health and using Dark Aura with it's additional 12+ self damage (which doesn't count as saccing, you just outright lose that much health, if you have it or not.)

You an play a build with these smartly and effectively with practice and the proper skills complimenting it. But, for the casual player, blood magic f*cking sucks. It needs help badly and hopefully, with the new seperation of PVP and PVE we'll see some of this.

[Cosmic Error]

There are plenty of viable Blood skills, like [Strip Ench], [spoil victor], [dark fury], and [order of pain], but theres also lots of lame ones, like [Ravenous Gaze] and [life transfer]

The entire attribute doesn't need to be revamped, but there are skills in it that do. The "Blood Magic sucks" mindset needs to be dropped and replaced with [Blood magic is not the most useful of attributes".